Dust to Dust
“The State of The Dead” – Part 1
(A Chat Transcript)

any theories exist today concerning what happens when a person dies. Every religion has some idea of what happens to the soul, man’s “true, inner self,” when the body ceases to function. Even within Christianity, there seems to be a diversity of opinion, due to various passages of the Bible that seem to say at first one thing, then another. The Word of God is quick (living), and therefore cannot be observed as if it were a dead specimen under a microscope. It must be learned, lived with, studied from a standpoint of life – and a daily, growing walk. It must be compared against Itself, and against the Spirit that Yah our Father places within every true and honest-hearted follower of His dear Son.

This is a discussion with a friend of mine concerning what the Bible says man is while alive, what he will be when dead, and what is to come at the resurrection of the Just. I hope my readers will consider this study prayerfully, and of course... any questions or comments are most welcome.

Rose: Hi, David :)
David: Hi, Rose.
David: How are you feeling today?
Rose: Um, Okay :)
David: (nods.)
David: What was that matter you wanted us to discuss today?
Rose: (tries to remember...)
Rose: Something about when you die you have to wait to see Jesus for a while, I think.
David: Ah, okay.
David: Well, that’s a statement that is both true and false.
David: (laughs.)
David: I know that sounds confusing; let’s look at some scriptures then, okay?
Rose: Yes, but please go real slow :)
David: Okay, then I’ll give you a gift.
David: Do you know the Blueletter bible?
Rose: No.
David: Can you open another window and go to that site?
David: It will make it much easier for you to follow me.
Rose: Ok.
Rose: Yes.
David: Let me know when you get there.
Rose: http://www.blueletterbible.org?
David: Right.
David: Say when :)
Rose: Its up. Now what, bro?
David: Great, okay, well, this is a powerful site, and it’s helped me to find scriptures while talking in Crosswalk, as well as to read over passages without having to actually get the book.
David: For example, see the bar that says “search?”
David: Type in a word you can find in Scripture, or even a phrase.
Rose: Neat!
David: Yeah, okay, now go (back) and you can follow me finding verses with very little effort.
David: Not much strain on you finding things.
Rose: Thanks so much David.
David: (smiles.)
David: Okay, first... see where it says Book / Chapter / Verse up top on the main page?
Rose: Yes.
David: Okay, select “Luke” from the menu of book, then enter 23 as chapter and 39 as verse.
David: And then read verses 39 to 43, then we’ll talk about it.
Rose: Ok reading them now give me min...

“And one of the malefactors which were hanged railed on Him, saying, ‘If thou be Christ, save thyself and us.’ But the other answering rebuked him, saying, ‘Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation? And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss.’ And he said unto Jesus, ‘Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.’ And Jesus said unto him, ‘Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.’” (Luke 23:39-43)

Rose: Ok, I read it.
David: Okay.
David: Seems pretty simple at first, huh?
Rose: Yeah.
David: The criminal is dying, and Christ tells him, “Today you’ll see me in paradise.”
David: But the thing is... there is a problem with that.
Rose: Yes, there is.
David: First of all, Christ didn’t GO to paradise that same day.
David: Go (back) and then go to John 20:17.
Rose: Ok.

“Jesus saith unto her, ‘Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.’” (John 20:17)

Rose: Read it.
David: Great.
David: See, even on Sunday morning...
David: He’d not gone to Paradise yet, so how could He have seen the criminal there?
Rose: Um, dunno.
David: Okay, here’s the thing.
David: God is in three parts, right?
David: Father, Son, Spirit.
Rose: Yes.
David: And mankind is created in His image also, according to Genesis.
Rose: Yes.
David: So it is written that a man also is in three parts.
David: Body, Soul and Spirit.
David: See that?
Rose: (thinks so.)
David: The body is your flesh.
Rose: True.
David: That’s where the “Sin” lives, according to Romans 7 (verse 18), since we have all sinned “in Adam.”
Rose: Isn’t liking her flesh about now.
David: (smiles.)
David: Right, that’s the part that needs to be restored at the resurrection, or at translation, if you don’t die before He returns.
David: The flesh :)
David: Okay, so we’re clear on what that is?
Rose: Yes, I believe so.
David: Okay, now let’s look at the other extreme, the Spirit.
David: Go to Ezekiel 11:19
Rose: Okay.
David: This is what happens when someone is converted.

“And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh.” (Ezekiel 11:19)

Rose: Read it.
David: Kay, so you see that man has a “natural spirit” in Adam, but when he is converted, God gives him a “new Spirit.”
David: In other verses, we learn this the Holy Spirit.
David: He puts a part of Himself IN us, and therefore Christ lives in us, as Paul says in Galatians 2:20.
Rose: Ok.
David: So man is 1) the flesh, and 2) a Spirit that God puts into him.
David: That leaves the soul.
Rose: Ok.
David: There are lots of examples of this... like...
David: Gen 42:21, for one basic example.
David: Then, read Psalm 35:9
Rose: Ok, one moment please...
David: Sure, no rush.

“And they said one to another, ‘We are verily guilty concerning our brother, in that we saw the anguish of his soul, when he besought us, and we would not hear; therefore is this distress come upon us.’” (Gen 42:21)

“And my soul shall be joyful in the Lord; It shall rejoice in His salvation.” (Psa 35:9)

Rose: Ok.
Rose: Done.
David: Great.
David: So we see there are three parts to a man.
David: A body, where he “lives in” like a tent or “tabernacle.”
David: That’s the physical “machine” that we control with our minds :)
David: That’s the part Satan pollutes with desires and temptations in our fallen nature, and why we need Christ to save us from ourselves.
Rose: Ok.
David: And then we have a Spirit that He puts in us, that He put in Adam to bring him to life.
David: But then... we have a soul.
David: And you saw from those 2 passages, the soul can be in anguish, or joyful.
Rose: (nods.)
David: The soul is the mind, the thoughts... the part that feels and has emotions.
Rose: I see, Ok :)
David: All right, now, different things happen to those three parts when we die.
David: One verse tells us each of the three things.
David: Psalm 146:4
Rose: Ok...

“His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish.” (Psa 146:4)

Rose: Okay, I read it.
David: Great. Now the word “breath” there is the same word as “spirit.”
Rose: Ok.
David: His “ruach” goes forth.
David: And where does it go?
David: Ecclesiastes 12:7
Rose: Ok.

“Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.”

Rose: Ok, read that.
David: (smiles.)
David: Okay, so when a man dies, his “spirit” returns to God who gave it.
David: He retains that part of you in Heaven, till resurrection day.
David: Are you still on Ecc 12:7?
Rose: Yes.
David: Okay, that same verse tells you what happens to the body, repeating Psalm 146 :)
David: It’s what God said to Adam, “For dust you are, and unto dust you shall return.”
Rose: Ok.
David: You with me so far?
David: Understand everything?
Rose: I think so...
Rose: Um, that last part... can you go over it again?
David: Sure.
David: Man is made of three parts: Body, Soul and Spirit.
David: We looked at what happens (so far) to two of them when we die.
David: The body decomposes to dust.
David: And the Spirit returns to God “who gave it.”
Rose: Yes.
David: All clear now?
Rose: Yes.
David: Great, so one part left.... the Soul :)
David: That’s the part that has emotions, and feelings and thoughts, as we showed just now.
David: That’s your “personality,” who you really are.
David: The part that must choose to walk in either the flesh or the spirit.
Rose: I see, ok.
David: Right, Paul says “The spirit lusteth after the flesh, and the flesh after the spirit.”
David: Those two extremes are at war with each other.
David: And in the middle, you have your soul, the “real you” that can decide which one to choose: salvation or death.
Rose: Agreed.
David: So now... what happens to the Soul when you die? We saw Spirit and flesh...
David: Here is soul:
David: Go back to Psalm 146:4...
Rose: Ok.
David: And read the last part.

“His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish.” (Psa 146:4)

Rose: Read it.
David: Okay, you see the “thoughts” perish.
David: In the same book, go to Ecc 9:10
Rose: Yes it said his thoughts perished.
David: (nods.)
David: And also, Ecc 9:5, same chapter...
David: And continue to verse 6.
Rose: Ok one moment please.
David: Sure :)

“Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest.” (Ecc 9:10)

“For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.” (Ecc 9:5,6)

Rose: Thanks, I have read it all now.
David: Great.
David: So we have the missing piece of the puzzle :)
David: The body goes to dust, the Spirit returns to God, and the Soul (thoughts/mind/emotions/desires) perish with the body.
David: Now, that is not the end of the story! :)
Rose: Ok, great :)
David: You see, the Sadducees got most of this right.
David: But they forgot about the Spirit that returns to God.
David: That’s an important step, because, since they forgot a part of us still “lives,” they taught that when you die, that’s it forever.
David: They said there was no resurrection.
David: But Christ set them straight on that really quick :)
David: In fact, He did it Himself to show them just how.
Rose: Ok :)
David: (laughs.)
David: Now, when Christ was raised, what was raised up?
David: Was it just His spirit, or was it His body too?
Rose: His body was laid in the tomb, briefly...
Rose: Unclear on this.
David: Okay, here are a few Scriptures on that...
Rose: Ok.
David: John 20:27.

“Then saith He to Thomas, ‘Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.’” (John 20:27)

David: Luke 24:42 & 43.

And they gave Him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb. And He took it, and did eat before them.” (Luke 24:42,43)

Rose: Ok, read it.
David: Okay... one more? Because that’s just Christ... we need to see that it’s the same for everyone :)
David: Mat 27:52 and 53
Rose: Okay.

“And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.” (Mat 27:52,53)

Rose: Got it :)
David: Okay :)
David: So you see, Christ was raised in a body that could be touched, could eat.
David: And those raised with Him also will come out of the physical “graves” just as those did in Mat 27.
David: They will be glorified, immortal bodies, but bodies still.
Rose: Ok.
Rose: I see.
David: If I’m going too fast, let me know.
Rose: Summarize?
Rose: Thus far?
David: Sure.
David: Okay, man is 3 parts, body, soul and spirit.
Rose: (nods.)
David: We’ve seen that when we die, the body rots away to nothing, the spirit returns to God, and the soul perishes.
David: But now we are looking at what happens after that :)
Rose: Right.
David: On resurrection day, all the saints will be raised in the same way Christ was.
David: God returns the Spirit to us, and the body is thus raised.
David: And when you have time (you don’t have to now), read the last two chapters or so of Isaiah.
David: It talks about the new heavens and earth after Judgment.
Rose: Ok.
David: Where the saints will still work, and eat, and rest...
David: They will be in bodies.
David: But now the question is... what about the soul?
Rose: No kidding :)
David: (smiles.)
David: Well, be comforted on that.
David: When Christ was raised, He recognized all His friends.
David: He remembered His earthly life.
David: And in the judgment, men are raised and judged “according to their works.” Doesn’t make sense to judge someone based on stuff they can’t even remember, does it?
Rose: No.
David: Right, so... based on which decision your soul makes, whether to follow the Spirit or the flesh, you are raised to everlasting life, or everlasting death.
David: Basically, when the spirit and body reunite, the soul also is restored... in Heaven you’ll be “really you.”
David: (smiles.)
Rose: That’s neat.
David: Yeah.
David: Now, we’re almost done, but to tie it in...
David: Remember what Christ said to the criminal in the beginning?
David: “I say to you, today you shall be with me in paradise.”
Rose: Ahh, yes.
David: Okay, now, some have dealt with it this way...
David: They say in Greek, we can move the comma...
David: So it reads, “I say to you today, you shall be with me in paradise.”
David: That makes perfect sense, but if we understand the truth about body spirit and soul, we don’t even need to mess with the punctuation :)
David: If a man’s thoughts perish, will he know how long he has been dead?
Rose: No.
David: Solomon wrote in Ecclesiastes that the “dead know nothing.”
David: Right.
David: So you live, you die...
David: And the next thing you know, you’re about to go into the gates (hopefully).
Rose: I want to do that!
David: “Man is appointed once to die, and after that, the judgment.”
David: See, it seems to the individual that it’s instant, although in reality he may be waiting many years.
David: (nods and smiles.)
David: That is what I meant by the statement being “true AND false” about having to wait to be with Christ after you die.
David: Yes, you have to wait until resurrection day, but.... you’re dead, so you don’t have any concept of time.
David: Mentally, there’s no waiting.
Rose: True.
David: Now, there are two or three scriptures that people use to argue with this.
David: We can look at those if you like, or we can leave it for another time :)
David: Because this is plenty enough.
Rose: Let me get kids ready for church as they have 30 mins, then I will be glad to finish this :)
David: Sure. We can split it into two conversations, then.
Rose: Ok :)

[End of Transcript 1]